Terrorists

The world has changed

 Just in case anyone is actually reading this, this is set up sorta' goofy. All the stuff I wrote about the attack I pulled out of my Journal and put here... a big chunk starting on the 11th through the end of the week is HERE  every time I feel the urge to write about the situation I put it here and add it to the top.

2/24/2003

This is from a British Newspaper called the Sunday Herald I wish it was a joke...

I Revealed: 17 British firms armed Saddam with his weapons

Investigation: By Neil Mackay Home Affairs Editor

SEVENTEEN British companies who supplied Iraq with nuclear, biological, chemical, rocket and conventional weapons technology are to be investigated and could face prosecution following a Sunday Herald investigation.

One of the companies is Inter national Military Services, a part of the Ministry of Defence, which sold rocket technology to Iraq. The companies were named by Iraq in a 12,000 page dossier submitted to the UN in December. The Security Council agreed to US requests to censor 8000 pages -- including sections naming western businesses which aided Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programme.

The five permanent members of the security council -- Britain, France, Russia, America and China -- are named as allowing companies to sell weapons technology to Iraq.

The dossier claims 24 US firms sold Iraq weapons. Hewlett-Packard sold nuclear and rocket technology; Dupont sold nuclear technology, and Eastman Kodak sold rocket capabilities. The dossier also says some '50 subsidiaries of foreign enterprises conducted their arms business with Iraq from the US'.

It claims the US ministries of defence, energy, trade and agri culture, and the Lawrence Livermore, Los Alamos and Sandia National Laboratories, supplied Iraq with WMD technology.

Germany, currently opposed to war, is shown to be Iraq's biggest arms-trading partner with 80 companies selling weapons technology, including Siemens. It sold medical machines with dual-purpose parts used to detonate nuclear bombs. The German government reportedly 'actively encouraged' weapons co-operation and assistance was allegedly given to Iraq in developing poison gas used against Kurds.

In China three companies traded weapons technology; in France eight and in Russia six. Other countries included Japan with five companies; Holland with three; Belgium with seven; Spain with three and Sweden with two, including Saab.

The UN claims publicly naming the companies would be counter-productive. Although most of the trade ended in 1991 on the outbreak of the Gulf War, at least two of the five permanent security council members -- Russia and China -- traded arms with Iraq in breach of UN resolutions after 1991. All trade in WMD technology has been outlawed for decades.

UNSCOM found documents showing preparations by the Russian firms Livinvest, Mars Rotor and Niikhism to supply parts for military helicopters in 1995. In April 1995, Mars Rotor and Niikhism sold parts used in long-range missiles to a Palestinian who transported them to Baghdad. In 2001 and 2002, the Chinese firm Huawei Technologies sent supplies to Iraqi air defence.

Foreign companies supplied Iraq's nuclear weapons programme with detonators, fissionable material and parts for a uranium enrichment plant. Foreign companies also provided Iraq's chemical and biological programmes with basic materials; helped with building labs; assisted the extension of missile ranges; provided technology to fit missiles with nuclear, biological and chemical warheads; and supplied Scud mobile launch-pads. Nearly all the weapons that were supplied have been destroyed, accounted for or immobilised, according to former weapons inspectors.

The Foreign Office said: 'The UK will investigate and, if appropriate, prosecute any UK company found to have been in breach of export control legislation.' The Department of Trade and Industry said details on export licences, including information on weapons sold to Iraq, was unavailable.

A spokesman for one of the British companies named, Endshire Export Marketing, said it had sold a consignment of magnets to a German middle-man who sold them to Iraq. Responding to claims that magnets could be used in a nuclear programme, the spokesman said: 'I've no idea if this is the case. I couldn't tell one end of a nuclear bomb from the other.' The company was included on a US boycott list in 1991.

He said the company considered the deal 'genuine business' at the time but that, with the 'benefit of hindsight', the firm would not have taken part in the deal. A spokesman for the MoD's International Military Services said he could not comment as no staff from 1991 were on the payroll and no documents from then existed.

Mick Napier of the Stop The War Coalition said: 'How can we support a government which says it's against mass murder when its record is one of supporting and supplying Iraq? This government depends on public mass amnesia.'

Tommy Sheridan, leader of the Scottish Socialist Party, said: 'The evidence of British armament companies, with central government support, arming the Butcher of Baghdad lays to rest the moral garbage spewed from the British government. It exposes the fact that Britain, along with America, France and Russia, armed Saddam to the teeth while he was butchering his own people.'

Labour MP Tam Dalyell said: 'What the Sunday Herald has printed is of huge significance. It exposes the hypocrisy of Blair and Bush. The chickenhawks who want war were up to their necks in arms deals. This drives a coach and horses through the moral case for war.'

UK firms that sold arms to Iraq

Key: A -- nuclear, B -- biological, C -- chemical, R -- rocket, K -- conventional

10/02/01

Debunking 9/11/2001 hooey  http://purportal.com/special/9-11/

This is a pretty good site, hope he keeps it current... 

Saturday September 29, 2001

I find myself being able to go for an hour or two without thinking about the World Trade Center Atrocity, I have mixed feelings about that... I feel like I am betraying myself, the me that wanted blood 18 days ago. I don't feel the need to press for vengeance any more, thousands of innocents are dead, there is no vengeance terrible enough to right that sort of horror. Should we kill of 7000 innocents in retribution? create another army of hate? At the same time we hunt down and excise the cancer of bin Laden and his minions we need to do something constructive for area that has allowed him to ferment the passions of the people against us. We are a good, kind, compassionate people, at least that is the image we have of ourselves. How our self image has been despoiled to being thought of as dispassionate, self-serving, greedy, insensitive, corrupt... evil. is the work of the terrorists and of our own callousness in dealing with other countries and their people. We are about big business, we deal with the powers that control the assets we want... those powers are often ... (it's late, losing my train of thought, back to this later)

Monday October 1st, 2001

Click here: Islam Means Peace

I asked the person who sent me this, “I notice it’s unsigned, Do you have any idea who is behind this hateful gibberish?” 

What kind of Christian teaches intolerance in the name of Jesus, hate in the name of Christianity… they have completely missed the point of their own religion. At a time when sane people are fighting to unify the world, trying to teach understanding and reason why would someone want to preach hate and divisiveness, this sort of sarcastic innuendo and divisive garbage is unconscionable.  

Are they trying to scare people into becoming “Good Christians” by using tactics ala Joe McCarthy, Hitler, Stalin & THE reverend Jerry Falwell… Disgusting… this sort of self-serving crap is playing right into the terrorist’s hands, they may as well be in cahoots with them…The Terrorists and these idiots would love to have this turn into another Holy War… What  the writer of this forgets is the terrorists are good at it, Christians haven’t had a good holy war since 1094AD… and they lost them all. This isn’t about Christianity it’s about America… the terrorists don’t hate Christians, they hate Americans…

Friday September 28, 2001

  From a friend on a list... 

Just wondering -- but have you heard any accounts of Muslim clerics openly addressing the apostate Muslims who have corrupted their faith saying anything to the effect, "We do not and will not support your attacks on America and American citizens.  We will never respond to your call for Jihad against them.  What you do blasphemes Islam and good Muslims around the world.  We support those who will bring you down."

Thus far, I've heard only Muslims say, "Islam is a peaceful religion," etc., but I've yet to hear any Muslim leader publicly denounce those fringe Muslims who employ terror.  I am concerned that their weak posturing will amount to nothing when push comes to shove.  That if and when war breaks out they will stand by and do nothing since it would be un-Islamic to go against an Islamic brother -- even one who defiles the faith.  Or worse, they will pick sides -- the side of Islamic terrorists -- for fear of what would happen if they didn't support an Islamic "brother."   

Two things pop into my mind:

First: The only way we would know if Muslim Imam’s are denouncing the terrorists and pledging to support all efforts to hunt them down is if the media, our media, deems it to be newsworthy… where do you think that sort of story would be on their radar screen…

Second: If the Southern Baptists were to denounce any sort of association with the White Power, Anti Government, Militia Movement that spawned the Oklahoma bombers, or the Roman Catholic or Protestant Churches to denounce and pledge to hunt down Irish terrorist bombers in their midst, chances are they would not have to give serious consideration to being killed for it, Muslims would.

I firmly believe that Islam is not our enemy, Muslims aren't our enemy either... Terrorists are our enemy, Terrorists use their religions, National Pride, Race... what ever it takes to get what they want, they use it to inflame and corrupt the minds of their followers... Like Joe McCarthy used fear of Communism and Hitler used the Jews, They use Christianity in Ireland, they used the Shinto religion to justify the divine right of the Japanese people to rule Asia, They used Manifest Destiny right here in the good old USA to justify the slaughter of tens of thousands of Native Americans, Spanish and Mexicans...and on and on.  Terrorism is our enemy... practiced by one person or a whole country, it needs to be obliterated. 

I am coming to realize that the way to beat the Osama bin Laden's of this world is to isolate them, humiliate them, make them a laughing stock, an anachronism. Put them in prisons and study them as though they were laboratory animals, aberrations, defects. Steal back the hearts of the people who they recruit from. We can't ignore the people any more, we can't let the people in northern Afghanistan who are fighting the Taliban down, we can't abandon them when the war is won either. I think of "The Bay of Pigs" primarily, but Viet Nam, Nicaragua, Columbia come to mind too, we have a history for backing the wrong people for the wrong reasons... it's time we paid more attention to the oppressed and put less energy into helping the oppressor. 

Saturday September 24, 2001

I sent out this little Joke:

Quote of the day

President Bush response when asked "what is taking so long"

"I'm not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 tent just to hit a camel in the butt."

People are writing back wanting to know when he said that… I tell them I assumed it was a joke… he is not that articulate “off the cuff”… I was wrong, he really did say that... I will never be a Bush Fan, but I did like the candor of this remark and refreshing honesty...

Sooooo... I started my day by listening to GW wag his finger at the baddies... take away their allowance... sheesh...

What do you think about the big speech?… something bugs me about our first assault on terrorism being economic… I guess that’ll teach him…Poor guy can’t go to the ATM any more… we’ll inconvenience him to death…  I guess that next we will put out the word that if he kills any more Americans we’ll revoke all the McDonalds Franchises in the Middle East… “Be careful you SOB, or Burger King is next.”  

At least the Russians are supplying the Afghans rebels in the North… it’s not much… but it’s at least something tactical, and tangible… Exasperating that we have been pussy-footing around, I am just afraid we are going to tippi-toe around for a couple months and lose credibility… The FBI is barnstorming around raising alarms left and right, scaring the shit out of little old ladies and arresting everyone in sight… looking like the Keystone Kops… hope they catch someone really involved soon… this is getting  embarrassing… Richard Jewel all over again. 

Monday, September 18, 2001

More random thoughts

There are scary days ahead I suspect... Bush is handling this pretty well I think... not sure where the restraint came from, craftiness or ineptitude but it seems to be the right thing to do... we need to nail the right guys first then take on terrorism in general...

I am still sickened by the Democratic and Republican partisanship this is not the time for dissent or Joe McCarthy type finger pointing and saber rattling, the finger pointing and public displays of partisan dissent need to stop... disagreement is fine but it should not be done from the media's grandstand... Constructive comments are always welcome but public displays of conflict in the government are counter productive...

We got exactly the sort of security and we demanded and paid for...We asked for speed and convenience and that's what we got... Our airport security was a joke... airports caught stupid people... we are up against college educated people who are prepared to die for their beliefs... hard to fight that...

Pointing fingers at the security at the airports and scapegoat the apparent breakdown of our intelligence community is grandstanding taking cheap-shots just to get your name in the news is counter to the objective. No one could have predicted that sort of insensitive inhumanity... it was the sort of thing you would have expected from Attila the Hun or the Inquisition... we are dealing with educated people with a belief system that originated in the Dark Ages and never advanced... the emphasis should be on creating new strategies and tools to prevent the next assault... the terrorists involved in the attack on September 11 raised the bar for terrorists everywhere... it was like a challenge... the world has to unite beside us to prevent the next assault from being chemical or biological

 The economy is in the tank for a while.. we need some decisive leadership from GW and some credible decisive action from the military... they can't afford to screw this up... the world is watching...Danger can't enter the equation... it's important to move quickly and decisively but it is absolutely mandatory to do it right.

We have to be prepared for more sacrifices we can't live and prosper under the threat of terrorism... it has to be rooted out no matter the cost...

Osama bin Laden may not be the best first target, he is the spiritual head of their movement... they will protect him at any cost...  We have to hunt them down and exterminate them... perhaps if we dispose of enough of his minions he will be forced to make a mistake...the trouble is that to the countries/religions they represent they are not terrorists, they are freedom fighters... there will be a high price to pay economically, politically, and in people...

I see it this way:

Moslems = Christians... 

Taliban = Radical Southern Baptist... 

Terrorists = KKK... 

Bin Laden = The Grand Dragon 

you cant blame any of this on Muslims unless you can blame what Mcveigh and Nichols on Christianity

M.B. Said; Fundamentalism, to me, is the root of all evil... I agree 100%

We can't let this turn into a holy war... not even a patriotic war... this should be a war of unity against a disease that has corrupted humanity...they WANT a Holy War... we have to prevent that at all cost... we can't kill innocent people or we will be painted by the same brush... that would be terrorism...

Maybe... with our 20 20 hind sight it is obvious we should have hunted down Sadaam Hussain...Bush thought he was dealing with a civilized human being... Sadaam is from another time and an alien place...

I think all religions (with the possible exception of Buddhists) need to step back and rethink their teachings... no more elitism... no more demonizing others, no more "We are right and you are wrong"... teach of a loving Compassionate God not a vengeful God... I firmly believe that all religions are paths to God there is no "Right path" only a path that is right for you...

We need to do the first assault ourselves I think... I think that what ever coalition develops will need the support and autonomy of the whole world... I would like to see it as an arm of NATO... That way they can hunt them down in Afghanistan, Japan, Ireland, Germany or right here in the USA... it needs to be able to finish the job too... no more Viet Nam's, No more Korea's, it has to fight on until the price of being a terrorist is so high even an insane man would think twice.

This is a free country... the price of liberty is eventual betrayal... on September 11th that price became too high... Liberty will suffer...

 (I made that up... pretty good huh?)

 I should be Bush's speech writer!!!

M.B. Said: We will not be able to "run around" as we have...much checking and rechecking and I heard on CNN that we might have an ID, to be used even for church attendance.

I think that that's misguided, it will instill fear instead of resolve... think about how the Terrorist cells operate, they are tribal or family or both... they know each other totally... perhaps churches need to stress family and community and friendship and loyalty and ... not fear... not vengeance... not separation from their fellow man but fellowship

Monday, September 18, 2001

The bulls eye was New York City, the Target was America, the victim was supposed to be our ideals… we need to work together to see that it backfires on them… the result can be the unification of the world against intolerance and intimidation… we have only one common enemy … Terrorism…  

Also this

John S. 

My father (who is a retired Naval Officer) sent this message in response to inquiries he had received about "what should the US do in response to the terrorist act?" He said our problem is not an easy one; a quick response would be unwise. He included the following, which was written by an American-Aghani writer. It helps explain the delicate and difficult situation we are in. Please read this and pass it on to others, AND, please, please, please pray for God to give wisdom and discernment to our President and government. May God's peace be with all of you and those you love. 

Dear Friends, 

The following was sent to me by my friend Tamim Ansary. Tamim is an Afghani-American writer. He is also one of the most brilliant people I know in this life. When he writes, I read. When he talks, I listen. Here is his take on Afghanistan and the whole mess we are in. 
-Gary T. 


Dear Gary and whoever else is on this e-mail thread: 

I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done." And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. 

I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters. But the Taliban and Bin Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban. We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. 

New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else? 

Tamim Ansary 


John S. 

Monday, September 17, 2001

A friend sent this out to a group of AOL folks I call The Loop:

Subject: Figures

 So far, none of the governments in the Middle East want to help us, Italy and
Germany have also said no go.  I also don't see any nation coming with offers
to provide any other kind of aid. I think the next time any of them need
anything we should say no and tell them why.  Am I the only one who is sick
and tired of our unrequited benevolence? 

I spent the day trying to articulate my thoughts... I probably shouldn't have even sent a reply, but I did. What I wrote is OK but I still have more to say... it was a compulsive sort of thing on my part... an exercise to see if I can make sense of my thoughts and knee-jerk feelings.

Subject: RE: Figures

I don’t know the answer to your question… Personally, what the rest of the world does is not as important to me as what we do … My concern is the resolve and willingness of this country to stay the course… this morning I listened to a Congressman, solely to get his name in the news, quibble about Bush’s use of the word “War” and “Who are we at war with”, “Should we really impose new regulations that will inconvenience Americans”, “Is it really necessary to change the laws about wiretaps” blah, blah, blah… This is not the time to air your policy differences in the media… what a jerk… there are two generations behind us that have spent their lives in pursuit of their own personal agenda. I am afraid that the instinct toward apathy, greed and indifference may be too powerful to surmount.

I am worried that we might have the wrong man in the Oval Office to lead and motivate the country, and rally other countries around us. He is committed, but his simplistic rhetoric and seemingly aimless flailing about makes me nervous. Pep-rally like extravaganzas, evangelical cadences and invocations, his impassioned threats and promises are empty till he can put a name to “THEM, and “THEY”. I would like to sense more “cold resolve” and less “passionate outrage”… I am somewhat comforted in the presence of Colin Powell and Dick Cheney… Condoleezza Rice’s cool appraisal of the situation and description of Bush’s sense of resolve was comforting… I wish Bush could convey it to the World…

I am afraid that people will tie ribbons around trees, post poignant WebPages, sing patriotic songs… pat each other on the back and deem that to be serving the country.  I want to see steely resolve from the government, I want to see grim commitment to the long haul from the military, and unwavering, meaningful, constructive support from our fellow citizens. I want to see a clamp-down on the media’s “Right to know”. I want to see Bush flip off the next petulant piss-ant that suggests he is over reacting. I want them to lock up for treason the assholes in the Midwest that jacked gas prices up to $4. Same with the people that called in bomb threats, and the scum that have started up Charity scams.

I am afraid that we will legitimize the terrorists by turning this in a Holy War, they are criminals that need to be hunted down like rats in a sewer. Islam is not to blame, Muslims are not to blame… anymore that fundamentalist Baptists are to blame for the acts of Mcveigh & Nichols…

 I am afraid that the Media will continue it’s emphasis on the dissention, and feed the conspiracy nuts and religious fanatics. I am also afraid that they will whip the populace into such a frenzy that the administration will feel it has to respond, and, it will lash out too violently and too soon and kill the wrong people or lack of preparation will get our sons killed…  

England, Germany and Italy are our allies… they are behind us but are understandably concerned about any unilateral military attack. The saber-rattling and threats of revenge and retaliation against “Terrorism” is too global and in their view irresponsible… Canada, Kuwait, Russia have signed on, the leader of Pakistan has surmounted incredible pressure to demand Oasma bin Laden from the Taliban. The United States has lashed out ineffectively too many times in the past. Bush has no discernable plan beyond “hunting them down”, until he does they will withhold 100% support. I don’t blame them… the countries you mentioned have been dealing with terrorism on a smaller scale for decades… they are the experts, not us… we need them at our side, not at our back… so far I haven’t heard of any coalition being proposed, only “… if you are on our side Get in line, if your not, arm yourself” Macho Bullshit… Like the neighborhood bully telling you to join the Neighborhood Watch or he’ll burn your house down… if I were a citizen of another country I would resent any ultimatum from America too… especially after having already offered support…

.. I can sense my emotions cooling, I still can't get a handle on how someone could do that to 5000 perfect strangers... 5000 people who had never harmed them... or helped them... is that it... are they Jealous of our prosperity, are they pissed off because we didn't give them money? How can they hate us so much, what have we done? I don't get it. I have always felt that the hatred was instilled in them by power hungry hate-mongers, it isn't the religion, it isn't politics, it isn't anything but manipulation and mind control. People who's thirst to control their people have taken the the course taken by the Nazi's, the Nazi's convinced the Germans that the depression they were in was caused by the Jews, he demonized them and used the fear and hatred  to gain power, they have convinced the people who trust them that we are the demon's that have inflicted all the pain, poverty and suffering on the their country. We are out to destroy the Islamic Faith and people, We are the corrupters, the evil, the Infidel. 

We have made horrendous mistakes in the middle east, we have supported the wrong regimes, we have made the rich richer and the poor poorer with our thirst for oil, we have turned a blind eye to the graft and corruption we have done nothing to promote industry or agriculture, we send money that gets funneled  into the coffers of the princes... we let the hatred and Anti American feelings smolder, and the Imam's fanned the embers... but still sending suicide bombers to kill indiscriminately is beyond obscenity. To celebrate the deaths of 5000 innocent people is demonic... are we less than human in their eyes, are we so insignificant, are their own young men so worthless that they can be sacrificed... what kind of person can believe in a god that demands that sort of pain... why would anyone  subjugate themselves to such insanity... is it fear... do they fear the wreath of Allah, or their holy men.

Oops... my emotions are warming back up. Islam wants the world to be Islamic... well duh... so do the Roman Catholic, Seventh Day Adventist, Scientology, every sect of every denomination would rejoice if the world would suddenly decide to become... what ever. Religious intolerance, Racial Intolerance, Power, Greed, Arrogance, Indifference, Apathy... ugly words... these words kill, enslave, starve, corrupt... and promote hate. I think it's time for religions everywhere to rethink their teaching... teach tolerance, acceptance, preach love not hate... God is God... he is what he is... anyone who professes to "KNOW GOD" is a charlatan and a liar... Who is RIGHT? Who cares... is there really only one true path to God? I don't think so... and there is only one way to Know... 3000 people and 18 terrorists just found out the truth... 

I got this too:

I feel better with Bush in office, than I would with plastic man Al Gore. Think about how much of this started under him & Slick Willies regime. Who cut back on the CIA, . Janet Reno has to share some blame too. Think about it, The first World Trade Bombing, The Embassy Bombings, The USS Cole, How long do you think the planning went on for these bombings, at least a year, all under Slick Willies regime. Waco, which led to the Oklahoma City Bombings. The Spies, Ames and Hansen, how much damage did they do to our security. Why did Slick Willie sell China the technology to launch their missiles. I'm starting to think the Monica Lewinsky affair was a smokescreen to take the heat off all the other things he was doing. Why did he pardon the FALN New York bombers. They are terrorists too, they were bombing buildings in the USA, but he pardoned them. I think if Hillary runs for president, and Guilliani runs against her, it's no contest. This guy has been a tower of strength in New York. Maybe her next book should be "It takes a whole village to raise a child, but only a couple of idiots to destroy a city.

Wow, I listened to Rush Limbaugh excreting this bile all the way across the country, word for word... I had know idear it were true... 

I didn't know that....No room to respond to this... How do you refute a lecture... The bombings were Bill and Hillary's fault, and Janet Reno was an accomplice... who'd a thunk it...  I am surprised he didn't add the persecution of the Liberal Media, ACLU, Abortionists, Feminist Movement, And Non-Arian Non-White Non-Christians and Oh Oh Oh... Liberals & intellectuals (or is that redundant) aren't they the root of all evil... oooo and the Jews... don't forget the Jews...And the Israelis If we hadn't been supporting Israel this never would have happened... shame on us... we deserved it... the terrorists were the instruments Christian Prophesy... Hell, Jerry Falwell said so!...must be true... why would he lie. Here I was thinking it was our policies in the middle east that began in the Eisenhower administration when Oil was discovered under the sand and we put the Shah in control...and the oppression aged like fine wine by the Kennedy, Ford, Carter, Nixon, Reagan, Bush and Clinton administrations that was the impetus for the troubles in the middle east... reading the above makes me think maybe we deserved to be taught a lesson... shame on us... for stopping the assassinations, drug trafficking, by the CIA, Shame on us for Waco, Timothy McVeigh was right... that day care center needed to be made an example of... I missed out on the Chinese Terrorist's... when did that happen... 

there is no way to stop an intelligent determined terrorist... no way to infiltrate them, no way punish them that won't martyr them... all you can do is exterminate them... 

Tuesday                   September 11, 2001  Terrorists

Drop George a line:

President George W. Bush:

I have a reply already

-----Original Message-----
From: White.House.Mail.Relay.Autoresponder [mailto:White.House.Mail.Relay.Autoresponder]On Behalf Of Autoresponder@WhiteHouse.GOV
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:38 PM
To: padagge@potc.net
Subject: Re: Terrorists

 Thank you for emailing President Bush.  Your ideas and comments are very
important to him. 

Unfortunately, because of the large volume of e-mail received..........

Revenge is a dish best eaten cold. 

(Spanish (or Sicilian?) proverb) 

Random Thoughts

... I wake up to NPR every morning... a reporter broke in to the news to say there had just been an explosion at the World Trade Center...

This is going to be a test for the country… the world...

My mind can't assimilate the ramifications of what has happened...

Terrorists by any name are a sub-species of humanity. The people who actually committed these acts are irrelevant, they need to be exterminated like rabid rats, the people who trained, plotted, supported, protect, praise, or are in any way gratified by what happened this morning need to be annihilated.

Any religion, government or organization that can justify an attack on defenseless, innocent, civilians, needs to be reeducated, abolished or annihilated...

Terrorists in Japan, Ireland, Palestine, Afghanistan, Montana or anywhere in the world need to get the word that it is time for it all to end.

The philosophy of terrorism as a viable alternative for the people who have deemed themselves oppressed needs to be made untenable... they need to be made to understand that the consequence of terrorism in any form is total devastation.

If there is a demonstration in support of this action anywhere in the world it needs to be wiped out the world can no longer tolerate the terrorist mindset.

It is time for the civilized world to forget their civility and get Old Testament biblical...

Pacifism is as reprehensible to me now as terrorism. Vengeance and retribution fills my soul…

I feel uncharacteristically vengeful

I get the sense that we are dealing with an intelligent opponent with Dark Ages mentality. 

Osama bin Ladin ``I'm fighting so I can die a martyr and go to heaven to meet God. Our fight now is against the Americans,'' How do you defend against a person who wants to die in the act of killing you so he can be a martyr. College educated religious fundamentalists... Lunatics and madmen with college diploma's... it's insane.

78 Policemen and over 200 firemen are missing... these people need to be hunted down and killed... not put on trial... killed, it's the only thing they understand.

I just spent about 20 minutes looking at the message boards on Yahoo. The level of ignorance intensity of the bigotry is appalling... the consensus seems to be that we should stop helping Israel... what is that? This has nothing to do with Israel any more, this is a taste of what Israel has been dealing with for 50 years... the concept that we should turn tail in fear because of this attack is repulsive to me as an American... I want to send troops to Israel and invade Palestine and shut the damn place down... I wanted to see bombs falling on the cheering crowds in Egypt, Iraq, Palestine and Afghanistan. 

Read a couple of comments that implied that we deserved it for supporting the Israeli's if we just back off it won't happen again... it's appalling to me that that sort of isolationist attitude still exists... like America can survive alone in the 21st Century... when will people realize the obvious that there is only one race, there is only one world. The Economy is 

There was never an angry man that thought his anger is unjust. 

St. Francis De Sales 

I have been trying to find someone to talk to about this all day, only Christy and I and my friend in Missouri... I want America to lash out... now... the longer we take the more emboldened the terrorists will become. 

The price of terrorism has got to be too high to pay. No trials, no nothing.. they should be captured and disappear… no death… no martyrdom just nothing.

I like what GW said “the United States would retaliate against "those behind these evil acts," and any country that harbors them.”  

"The search is underway for those who are behind these evil acts. I've directed the full resources for our intelligence and law enforcement communities to find those responsible and bring them to justice. We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them."

I wonder if I am alone in feeling angry... 

I have learned through bitter experience the one supreme lesson to conserve my anger, and as heat conserved is transmitted into energy, even so our anger controlled can be transmitted into a power that can move the world. 

Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948)

…Again I am humbled by the words of a great mind

Wednesday                   September 12, 2001  

... 

...I will have to ponder the realization that I am glad for the moment that George Bush is in the White House... the idea of a bleeding heart pacifist in charge at the moment would be scary. I guess there is a place for reactionary republicans after all. I want to see some retaliation pretty soon though... then I would like to see the rational countries of the world come together and form an autonomous force capable of hunting these people down and disposing of them in a professional surgical manner. Seek them out, reveal their networks and hunt them down, and kill them... quietly one at a time... no fanfare no "Film at 11" just kill em and keep killing them until they are all gone, I want the Timothy McViegh's and the Osama bin Ladin and the Mafia and the IRA and Red October the whole bunch lumped into one subspecies I don't care where they are or what they think they are fighting for, how righteous or just their cause, if they use terrorist tactics, they are toast. If they kill innocent civilians, they are toast. 

This is an interesting site:

http://www.usis.usemb.se/terror/rpt1999/appb.html

The Nostradamus thing is a fabrication… it seems to imply that the terrorists that perpetrated the atrocity in America were some how part of a prophesy. People are holding this up in churches to imply that this is somehow a biblical retribution and God is really on the terrorists side. 

Lots of things like this are coming out on the Net these days… seems like the most powerful tool we have these days is skepticism… 

The following quatrain started circulating on the Internet after the WTC bombings.

In the City of God there will be a great thunder,

two brothers torn apart by chaos,

while the fortress endures, 

the great leader will succumb.

The third big war will begin when the big city is burning.

It is NOT by Nostradamus.

Thursday                   September 13, 2001  

One story on NPR was about the Queen of England requesting that the band play the American National Anthem at the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace... very classy lady that Elizabeth...

Then to counter that a bunch of Ignorant Texas Redneck Assholes (Is that quadruplly redundant?) went and terrorized some Muslims and vandalized a couple Mosques... boy... some people are just clueless... it has happened here in California too... how can some people miss the point so totally.

Friday                   September 15, 2001  

I got this picture from a friend, with this comment: There has been much discussion of what we should do at the site of the WTC.  Some say a memorial park, some say rebuild one story higher.  There is nothing funny about what is really going on but sometimes you just need a laugh.  Here is one persons suggestion for the rebuild... 

It took me a while to appreciate this picture. I thought is was funny the moment I saw it but then I considered, what sort of a statement should we send the assholes that thought they could "Teach us a lesson," "Punish us for supporting Israel" The caption I though of was "Proposal for the design of the new World Trade Center" and I am of the opinion it should be given serious consideration... it is in New York City after all....

The fella that sent me the picture sent me this too... George's Story

Lots of motivational stuff coming over the net, lots of eloquence and lots of well intentioned schlock too... in my estimation the best I have seen was an article by Leonard Pitts... if you haven't already read it (hard to imagine) go here:

http://www.miami.com/herald/content/features/columnists/pitts/digdocs/000565.htm

I am going to bookmark this page and go back once a week and read his column:

http://www.miami.com/herald/content/features/columnists/pitts/

His column on anger was excellent... it's not often you find someone who can cut to the bone like this... it is a gift...

I listened to GW give his motivational sermon at the prayer meeting this morning... I liked the gist of what he had to say but I am a bit put of by the manner in which he said it, it was bordering on insulting to me... his tone was preachy and his delivery was of the style of someone trying to convince me I need to work harder and be more involved... I don't need a motivational speaker to get me involved in the events of the past week, his tone, to me implied that he felt we needed to... ahhhh there is no point to this... it's just me, I can hear my republican friends saying I am full of beans... I guess there is nothing that is going to convince me that he has a mind of his own... sorry... I am being too harsh... I know that... He is doing things the way he thinks they need to be done... I would like to hear what he wants to say, the way he really wants to say it, not filtered through three committees and four speech writers... I honestly believe that I have never heard an original thought come out of that mans mouth. His speeches are geared to the lowest common denominator and they are slicked up with evangelical cadences and premeditated inspirational repetition. Hard to explain... 

I am just reminded of the last 10 or 15 years at the Fone Phactory where they would herd us all together to be motivated, posters, speeches, games, promotions, on and on, endless, phony, insulting, demeaning I am trying to think of a word that describes having someone talk down to you to get you to do a better job as though you were incapable of doing a good job unless he prodded you with impassioned inanity and snappy little jingles... They thought so little of us that they were unaware of the fact that I was already doing a good job, I was already motivated, and the sorry fact of the matter was the harder I was pushed the more I resented it... God, I hated Chuck Smith's pep rallies...

I don't need ribbon's tied around trees, American flags, prayers, or any other superficial PC cheerleader bullshit... I am as focused and impassioned as it is humanly possible to be... if this country needs to be motivated to respond to this atrocity then it should turn over the mantle of leadership to someone who can get the job done... I listened to Tony Blair and a fella the conservative party named Iain Duncan Smith give speeches in the House Of Commons... excellent, direct, to the point, informative, and coldly honest and bluntly passionate... Tony Blair got up and praised America and Americans, Quoted GW and laid out what he wanted his country to do to support our efforts in hunting down the terrorists, then they introduced Iain D Smith as the next speaker, the title at the bottom of the screen said Opposition leader of the Conservative Party... He stood up and stared Tony Blair in the eye and said (I am paraphrasing) Mister Blair, what ever you want, you have got, we are behind you and will back you 100%... it was powerful, when he was done talking  I was ready to grab a gun and go kill something... when Bush was done I was glad he had stopped... I will support him in his new antiterrorist administration but I wish he would get to the point without all the frou-frou, superficial High School Debate Team packaged technique. 

I am surprised that the self appointed PC Police (The Hitler Youth of the new millennium) have been keeping such a low profile. I hope this incident serves as a warning to them to back off... the Politically Correct, lunatic fringe of the Extremist Liberal wing of our population got a WAKE UP CALL I hope... their policies abetted the people who attacked us.. more to this thought... too tired to continue...

Saturday                   September 16, 2001  

... the concept that what we are entering into is a Holy war is misguided, it is NOT a Holy War... to the followers of fundamentalist Muslims ideology it is a Holy War, to me we are entering into a concentrated effort to eliminate a deadly virus, an extermination process, like an infestation of wasps or termites.. Bush's comment about this being a war against Evil, he says that a lot... though in a simplistic way he is right but in my mind, it is only an evil in the eyes of civilized people, to the followers of fundamentalist Muslims ideology we are the Evil. We are at war against fanatics. 

... Jerry Falwell's quote about America being punished for our stance in Support for Zionism, Abortion and Stem Cell Research... I despise Jerry Falwell and his kind.. to imply that the despicable abomination perpetrated by ignorant fanatics was really an act of God and they were some how an instrument of God is unconscionable... it implies a justification for the act and an exoneration for the act... Jerry Falwell is a disgusting human-being. It glorifies them... it makes me sick in my heart.

Canceling the professional football and baseball games gives me mixed feelings... I would be bothered no matter what... I don't like sending the signal that we have been disrupted using sports to mourn is wrong... the lights must never go out, the song must always be sung... then again... how could the New York Jets play while down the road people are working to recover bodies... I think that canceling the games is probably the right thing to do, not to memorialize but to give the country a moment to reflect. I am still in a vengeful mood... all the memorials and talk of memorials, prayers, moments of silence and poignant moments filled with calculated pathos... implies that we are obsessed with grief, I am not... I am angry... I'll grieve later, the bill for this atrocity hasn't been paid yet.

I am tired of the shaken fists, threats and the posturing and promises of reprisal... I am also getting a little upset by the talk of the attack on New York, New York was the bulls eye, the target was America... we are not helping New Yorkers we are helping Americans.

I have a scar on my chest from my confrontation with mortality... a heart attack seizes all of your attention... when I wake up and look at myself in the mirror I am reminded daily of what is important and how precious life is. For me a fitting memorial to September 11 should be the pit where the WTC was... a scar... there is no way to pretend it is anything but what it is... 

"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say, 'What should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship, and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? 

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!" 

"He who has strength to chain down the wolf is a madman if he let him loose without drawing his teeth and paring his nails."

Both quotes from:

http://www.nationalcenter.org/SamuelAdams1776.html

It occurs to me that there were promises made soon after the Oklahoma City bombing about  stomping out terrorism in America... once they had zeroed in on McViegh and Nichols all that macho posturing went out the window... the Militia Movement hasn't felt the wrath of the country ever... it is still alive and emboldened... they are cheering Osama bin Ladin

I remember looking up hate groups back in 96, there were a lot of them, but they have multiplied at least 10 fold... The hate mongers and purveyors of paranoia and conspiracy are everywhere:

(Be careful before you look at these sites... block cookies, turn on your internet security... if you start to get pop up (Hedge-Hog) windows, shut down your connection... to the net... some of the sites referenced here are pretty mercenary and they are all preaching hate and dissention... you are warned) This is only the tip of the cesspool

http://www.wsws.org/index.shtml

http://www.wiesenthal.com/problematic_sites/lm_links_antisemitic.html 

Nothing has changed... they are more rabid then ever...it does not bode well for the "War on Terrorism"

82% approval rate for Bush... 

Placing blame on Airports, FBI, ... what ever, is a bunch of crap... our society is to blame... PERIOD... the most important things in our country prior to 0900 September 11, 2001 were entitlements, material goods, the economy... nobody gave a damn about security... security was an intrusion, an annoyance... when someone brought up the threat of terrorism he/was laughed out of the room, labeled a panty-waist alarmist... 

We shouldn't give the Sociopaths that did this any credibility beyond that of Outlaw... this isn't about religion or ideology or anything more than mass murder on an obscene scale. If this degenerates into a war of ideology or a Religious Holy war on either side we will add a new dimension to the conflict. Their fundamentalist beliefs, though a factor in the equation can't be allowed to mitigate what they did... Their perversion of the Islamic Religion is irrelevant to our conviction... we are going after Outlaws, they must be hunted down like rats in the town dump.

Sunday                   September 17, 2001  

... 

Mon, Sep 13, 1999, 6:41am 

Subj: A personal note to all in the United States 

When I opened my e-mail this morning a friend from the States asked me how we live with the almost daily deaths caused by Muslim inspired terrorism. As she put it, give us some words of wisdom.  I am not sure I have any wisdom in this area, all I have are incredible amounts of sadness and lots and lots of tears. After the second bomb went off here in Israel on Sunday I felt like screaming to the heavens "Enough, it is enough!" Of course, I did not do so, as this is not the work of God, but the work of very demented and evil human beings who are supported by other evil people--people, who, like the Palestinians here in Israel, spilled out into the streets dancing and singing and giving out candy to celebrate. While, to us here in Israel, this celebration of death is all too familiar, it never fails to  inspire my personal anger and the anger of all Israelis.    

How do we live with the constant terrorism, the constant deaths, the constant funerals, the ever flowing tears--we just put one foot in front of the other, we swallow it, pray on it, and then get up and go to work and send our children to school. We handle it this way because we really have no choice, and now, unfortunately you have no choice either. One friend from the States wrote me that life in the U.S. would be changed forever, and she is right. Your lives will be changed forever, just as ours have been.    

But to give up or to be swallowed with despair is to give further victory to the human evil that killed and wounded 1000's in the United States. In the end, this is why, we, here in Israel ,carry on our daily lives as best we can--to do otherwise would give the terrorists their greatest victory, and this we cannot do. 
    
So, while I have no words of wisdom to give you, I do want to encourage you to carry on your life today and in the days to come as normally as is possible despite your hearts and souls being filled with grief and fear. Do not give this evil a further victory!!   
 
I will end by telling you that today has been declared a day of mourning here in Israel, and, indeed, we are mourning with you. The IDF is flying to the U.S. to help find and evacuate victims and we, here in Israel are collecting blood to send to the U.S.  Our hearts and prayers are with you as we carry on our daily lives, as you, too, must now do--the pain and the fear never really goes away, but that must no stop us from living our lives, for to live life fully is victory of good over evil.  

Shalom, Kesam Katz 

*http://cougartown.com/newyork-story.html (This link has been bombing)

George's Story

Falwell:

God Gave U.S. 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says

By John F. Harris
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, September 14, 2001; Page C03

Television evangelists Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, two of the most prominent voices of the religious right, said liberal civil liberties groups, feminists, homosexuals and abortion rights supporters bear partial responsibility for Tuesday's terrorist attacks because their actions have turned God's anger against America.

"God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve," said Falwell, appearing yesterday on the Christian Broadcasting Network's "700 Club," hosted by Robertson.

"Jerry, that's my feeling," Robertson responded. "I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the major population."

Falwell said the American Civil Liberties Union has "got to take a lot of blame for this," again winning Robertson's agreement: "Well, yes."

Then Falwell broadened his blast to include the federal courts and others who he said were "throwing God out of the public square." He added: "The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.' "

People for the American Way transcribed the broadcast and denounced the comments as running directly counter to President Bush's call for national unity. Ralph G. Neas, the liberal group's president, called the remarks "absolutely inappropriate and irresponsible."

Robertson and others on the religious right gave critical backing to Bush last year when he was battling for the GOP presidential nomination. A White House official called the remarks "inappropriate" and added, "The president does not share those views."

Falwell was unrepentant, saying in an interview that he was "making a theological statement, not a legal statement."

"I put all the blame legally and morally on the actions of the terrorist," he said. But he said America's "secular and anti-Christian environment left us open to our Lord's [decision] not to protect. When a nation deserts God and expels God from the culture . . . the result is not good."

Robertson was not available for comment, a spokeswoman said. But she released a statement echoing the remarks he made on his show. An ACLU spokeswoman said the group "will not dignify the Falwell-Robertson remarks with a comment."