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I think I will just put all the Hot Button stuff that tumbles off my fingers on this page... I would love to discuss anything I have written here. Bear in mind that these are subjects that I find difficult to be dispassionate about...

A heated discussion

Another childhood pleasure

DOOMSDAY

Pro Life vs. Pro Death

I am trying to make sense of my life

I have poor People Skills

Pledge of Allegiance

Atheism

 

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12/9/2003

The history of the rise of Christianity has everything to do with politics, culture, and human frailties and nothing to do with supernatural manipulation of events. Had divine intervention been the guiding force, surely two millennia after the birth of Jesus he would not have a world where there are more Muslims than Catholics, more Hindus than Protestants, and more non-theists than Catholics and Protestants combined.

John K. Naland

I like the word Non-theist, it isn't as harsh as atheist. Seems like a Non-theist is a person who can get through the day without getting passionate about religion one way or the other, where as a theist or an atheist has an axe to grind. I guess I am a Non-theist. I can acknowledge that there are things I don't understand but I refuse to let others presume to tell me what to think nor do I believe that their convictions have any weight in my mind. I have my own convictions and I deem my mind to be as discerning as any other.

I don't believe that anyone has been endowed with the insight to know what is ultimately unknowable. Priests have been taught how to promote the religion that pays them. I don't believe that anyone has the right to tell me what to believe or what to think.

2/4/2002

Super-Bowl Rant

(I realize your hoopla during half time was all about getting you to ring up some bimbo and have a chat for an exorbitant amount of money, here it was wall to wall flag-waving and commercialized, homogenized, pasteurized hit-‘em-over-the-head-till-they-bleed’ shameless hype.)

Incidentally, the best commercial for me was two guys at a bar, next to a beautiful girl. One of the guys is bashful and tongue-tied, the other acting like Cyrano de Bergerac. The Cyrano one says “tell her “Hi, my names Bill, you have beautiful eyes”, Bill turns and looks her in the eyes and says “Hi, my names Bill, you have beautiful eyes”

Cyrano whispers, “Tell her “I’d really like to spend some time with you” Bill says “I’d really like to spend some time with you”

The bartender comes up with a Budweiser Beer and the Cyrano guy says “How Much?” then he sort of cringes when he realizes what he just said and we hear the friend, Bill, say “How much?” and a loud slap…

Well, I thought it was funny.

 

HERE"S THE RANT PART:
Thinking back on the Super Bowl extravaganza

I am trying to understand all the patriotic hoopla leading up to, during and after the game, it really disturbed me. The fact that people were getting caught up in it didn't concern me, what concerned me was that they were being manipulated into a fervor by the promoters and their sponsors. I think I appreciate patriotic displays as much as the next fella, I put out the flag on holidays, I am an ex-Navy guy, I get choked up when I hear the Navy Hymn or Taps. I get angry at my government when it attempts to use patriotism to manipulate us into attacking defenseless countries, and I get angry with advertisers who use patriotic images and rhetoric to coerce us into looking favorably on their products...

The way I see it, the Super Bowl is first and foremost the culmination of a season of Professional Football. Professional Football is a commercial enterprise pitting the manifestation of the egos of wealthiest men in the country against one another using athletes who are paid millions to do what no one else on the planet can or will do. It is an amazing show, and I would hate to miss it... but it's not patriotic. Without the billionaires to sponsor the leagues and the TV contracts and the cities and their taxpayers there would be no show, we mustn't lose sight of the reality that even after all the money is spent there is still tons of money being made. Apparently that isn't enough, they need to put on bigger, more extravagant circuses every year, they put the Roman Spectacles in the Coliseum to shame decades ago. No one actually gets torn apart by lions, except metaphorically, and no one has been killed... yet. All I am saying is that I would be happy to see it presented for what it is... a contest pitting the best athletes in the nation against one another, that should be enough. It's not Gettysburg, it's not heroic... hell it's not even patriotic!... it's a damn FOOTBALL GAME!!! Super Bowl Sunday is not the Fourth of July!... if anything it is the antithesis of it.

It concerns me very much that patriotic themes and emotions are being manipulated to exhort people to open their wallets. What about the true meaning of Patriotism, the willingness of men to pick up arms and die for their ideals and their country. How will we be able to go back to a time when Patriotic feelings were a welling up of deep emotion, pride and resolve. It seems to me that folks have come to think of patriotism as flags waving, fireworks, barbeque and beer. What will it take to motivate the country when real patriotism is required. What will America's response be when Patriotism requires more than running down to Wall Mart to buy another flag for the car window. When the price is deprivation, uncertainty, sacrifice and the lives of our children. Will they be running to the borders to evade the draft or to defend them, Will they be conspiring to take financial advantage of their investors, employees, partners and neighbors to make a buck, or will there be people standing in line to join the Army... I really wonder. 

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6/29/2002

Rounder God

Interesting response to the "Under God" business, amazing how ignorant people are about the Pledge of Allegiance, I was, I knew "under God" was added in the 50's because I was there, but until I looked it up I thought the Pledge was adopted in the 1770's not 1942...

The Origin and Meaning of the Pledge of Allegiance

By Ken Lynn

Each day in America's public and parochial schools, teachers and over 60 million students recite the Pledge of Allegiance along with thousands of citizens at meetings of the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, American Legion and many other fraternal and patriotic organizations. Most do so having no idea of the origin or meaning of the Pledge. The United States is one of the few nations in the world to have a pledge to its flag. How has this Pledge of Allegiance to our flag usurped the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights as the cornerstone of American patriotism?

The Pledge was first published in the September 8, 1892 issue of Youth's Companion, a weekly family magazine published by the Perry Mason Company in Boston. With a circulation of over 500,000, the Companion had the largest national circulation of its day. Daniel Ford owned Youth's Companion, and his nephew-by-marriage, James B. Upham, was a key staff member and a junior partner in the Perry Mason Company.

In 1891, Francis Bellamy, a Christian Socialist and Baptist minister, joined the staff of Youth's Companion. Bellamy was first cousin of Edward Bellamy, author of the widely circulated socialist utopian novel Looking Backward 2000-1887. Written in 1888, this book, which sold over a million copies in its first few years, described a future America completely socialized with all economic activity carefully planned. As Vice-President of the Society of Christian Socialists, Francis Bellamy lectured and preached on the virtues of socialism, giving a speech entitled "Jesus the Socialist," and a series of sermons on "The Socialism of the Primitive Church." In 1891, he was forced to resign from his Boston church because of his socialist views and activities.

Seeking ideas to commemorate the 400th anniversary of the discovery of America on Columbus Day, 1892, President Benjamin Harrison had initiated a call for the development of a special patriotic school program to highlight the event. Bellamy and Upham were able to line up the National Education Association to support Youth's Companion as a sponsor of the observance, and arranged for President Harrison and Congress to announce a national proclamation which centered around an American flag ceremony and (then unwritten) flag salute.

Bellamy, under the supervision of Upham, then authored the program for the celebration, including the flag salute or Pledge of Allegiance. His original version was, "I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." Bellamy considered putting the words "fraternity" and "equality" into the Pledge, but decided against it as equality for blacks and women was a controversial rather than patriotic issue of the time. Originally intended for recitation on that single day, the Pledge was an instant success and was quickly adopted by the nation.

The Pledge remained in its original version until 1923 when the words "my flag" were changed to "the Flag of the United States" at the urging of the American Legion's National Flag Conference. The following year the Pledge was altered again with the addition "of America" after "Flag of the United States." This version of the Pledge was codified into Public Law in 1942.

The Pledge remained unchanged until the paranoia and hysteria stemming from Sen. Joseph R. McCarthy's "red scare" hearings swept the nation in the 1950s. Fearing Communism might cross the Atlantic and engulf America, a feeling arose in Congress and throughout parts of the nation that by acknowledging "God" as our national symbol, America would be protected from the Communist menace. Scoring a religious Tri-fecta of sorts, the Pledge was amended in 1954 to include the words "under God;" legislation to add the motto "In God We Trust" to all coins and currency was passed in 1955; and the national motto "E Pluribus Unum" [out of many, one] was changed to "In God We Trust" in 1956. Collectively these measures form an interesting trilogy of laws for a country founded on a secular Constitution and a belief in the separation of church and state.

Since 1954, the now religious Pledge has read: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." In an attempt to mitigate the effects of this controversial change, some religionists claim that the words "under God" merely declare the right of the people to express their belief in a God, not that the nation itself was founded on a belief in a God. Unfortunately, a look at the historical record indicates the latter is exactly what Congress intended when it inserted "under God" into the Pledge.

The resolution to change the Pledge was introduced into the House by Rep. Louis C. Rabaut. He proposed to add the words "under God" as "one nation, under God." Note the placement of the comma between "one nation" and "under God." As part of its deliberations, the House Judiciary Committee solicited an opinion for comma placement from the Library of Congress. Three proposals were considered:

  1. one Nation, under God
  2. one Nation under God
  3. one Nation indivisible under God

The Library of Congress reported the following recommendation:

". . . Under the generally accepted rules of grammar, a modifier should normally be placed as close as possible to the word it modifies. In the present instance, this would indicate that the phrase 'under God,' being intended as a fundamental and basic characterization of our Nation, might well be put immediately following the word 'Nation.' Further, since the basic idea is a Nation founded on a belief in God, there would seem to be no reason for a comma after Nation; 'one Nation under God' thus becomes a single phrase, emphasizing precisely the idea desired by the authors . . ."

The Judiciary Committee and the House concurred with the Library of Congress, adopting the single phrase. The Senate co-sponsor of the resolution was Sen. Homer Ferguson, who said of the joint resolution during Senate debate, "Our Nation was founded on a fundamental belief in God . . ." Evidently, it was so important for this Congress to officially acknowledge the United States as a nation founded on a belief in a God, that even comma placement was debated to ensure the proper meaning was conveyed! With insertion of the words "under God," the Pledge has now become both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

When we pledge allegiance, what are we doing? According to Black's Law Dictionary, 6th edition, allegiance is defined as: "Obligation of fidelity and obedience to government in consideration for protection that government gives." Although the flag represents the embodiment of our national conscience and is easily the most recognized symbol of our nation, one that I proudly support and defend daily as a member of our nation's Armed Forces, I find it curious that a "religious" Pledge of Allegiance to our flag rather than a Pledge of Allegiance to our secular Constitution has become the institutionalized form of patriotism in our country.

Members of the military are required to swear or affirm their support and defense of the Constitution of the United States. I have gladly "pledged my allegiance" by making this affirmation, and I, like many other atheists in foxholes, would give my life if necessary to defend our Constitution and our great democratic way of life.

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Atheism

(Follow-up to my thoughts above)

Well, the article below pretty much says it for me, this article was so refreshing it helped to sober me up some. He says very concisely exactly what I was trying to get across through all the vitriol… I know I have a problem with Religion, Christianity in particular, it is hard for me to be dispassionate about something that affects me at my core. I have seen some pretty despicable things done in the name of Christianity. I will try to be more apathetic in the future and put things in perspective… I am an Atheist, but I don’t want to be associated with the people who are consumed by Atheism I am the sort of Atheist that tries very hard not to waste time thinking about it. I have long ago ruled out Deities, I find the concept improbable at best, I do enjoy the intellectual pursuit of the spiritual, in that I would like to become more accepting of myself and tolerant of others… Zen, seems to be the ideal for me but I’m too lazy and selfish to spend serious  time exploring it... saying that in print is probably going to alienate some folks. I am, like most people who have deemed themselves to be atheists, It is a little difficult to spell this out, because it isn't something that matters to me very much. I am an atheist in the same way I am a Californian, or brown eyed, or nearsighted. As far as I am concerned Atheism (Hell I even need a spell checker to spell it properly) isn't an ideology, at least not for me it isn't, it's more of a comment, a statement of indifference.

Folks I know who have invested a lot of themselves in their faith seem to cling to it more out of desperation and habit than anything else. Perhaps it's the illusion of community that sustains them, that is what kept me going to church for years.  I don't understand it but I have to respect their decisions... I wish I could surrender reason to religion, life would be far simpler, but I can't, I can't find anything in Christianity that makes sense beyond the parables or where Jesus teaches of love and acceptance, the rest of it just turns me off. Rip off the first half of the Bible and throw it away then perhaps we can talk.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FIRST PERSON From One Atheist to Another:
Chill, So a nonbeliever defeats 'under God' in the courtroom. How intolerant. How ironic.

By MARTIN MILLER, TIMES STAFF WRITER

I'm struggling with my atheism.

I don't mean that I'm losing my belief in a random universe. I mean it's getting harder to remain in a congregation in which the membership--at least that part that grabs the headlines--skews toward the sullen, cantankerous and litigious.

This week's court ruling that the Pledge of Allegiance violates the Constitution for its use of the phrase "under God" will no doubt have many true believers crying, there "they" go again. The "they" is, of course, me, in that I'd be a card-carrying atheist if "they" bothered to issue one. But also not me in the sense that many of us of no faith have the same reaction as most with faith to cases like these: Lighten up; we live in a country in which a large majority identifies itself as Christian. I can live with that.

Contrary to the God-fearing public's view of us as a monolith, atheists belong to many denominations. The branch that has been lawsuit-happy now for decades is from what I call the evangelical atheists.

They are intolerant, pushy and self-righteous. If it didn't interfere with their busy schedule of dark moods and constant brooding, they'd probably be handing out pamphlets and ringing doorbells. In short, they embody all the qualities that sparked this country's movement for religious tolerance and freedom in the first place.

Tolerance is something the lawsuit's plaintiff, Michael A. Newdow, could use a mighty dose of. He told reporters he doesn't believe in God for the same reason he doesn't believe in Santa Claus.

Evangelical atheists like Newdow delight in the Santa Claus analogy. It's memorable, sounds clever and is incredibly insulting. I've even heard the same assertion made with the Easter Bunny. In part, the evangelicals make such callous remarks because they see themselves as bringers of "Truth." And if a few feelings get hurt along the way, they reason, that's the price for the liberating light they bring.

But I would never make such a comparison, nor would many atheists I know. We wouldn't because it not only is bad manners and shows a lack of intellectual humility, it's also grossly unfair. It's empirically verifiable that there is no Santa Claus. The same cannot be said of God.

If you stuck a gun to my head (and, thankfully, I live in a country where that would happen only to rid me of my wallet rather than my religious beliefs), I would classify myself as an atheist. It was not a decision I made quickly or lightly. My reasons can probably be best summed up by paraphrasing the old Woody Allen joke: If there is a God, he's a tremendous underachiever.

But I cannot say with 100% certainty there is no God, and neither can anyone else. The proposition that the world just spontaneously came into being is preposterous. But so is the idea that a deity created the universe and now sits in judgment of what we humans do all day. Of course, if I'm wrong, I'm going to hell, as many evangelical Christians have told me. But I believe what I believe. Even we atheists must have faith.

The other problem with evangelicals like Newdow is that while he's so disrespectful about the beliefs of others, he insists his own be treated with the utmost reverence. Don't even mention the word "God" around him or he'll go to pieces. Society must accommodate him, not the other way around.

One of the many magnificent things about this country is that it does strive to accommodate the individual, but in this case, it's gone too far. There are no absolute rights, even with free speech. (Try shouting "fire" in a crowded movie theater.)

Thus, the question becomes what is reasonable. Is it reasonable in a nation where the dominant culture believes in God to recite the words "under God" in a classroom for a non-mandatory morning pledge? I think so. I grew up in the Bible Belt and said the pledge every morning of elementary school and don't recall my delicate sensibilities being trampled upon or my belief system altered by the ritual. It's a harmless nod to the majority.

Now with the Justice Department seeking a rehearing by the full 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, it seems likely Newdow's lawsuit will be overturned, as it should be. But, in the meantime, guys like him will continue to shape public perceptions of atheists.

I'm a newspaperman and I know how the business works, but one headline I'd love to see out of this affair is: "Well-Adjusted Atheist Doesn't Object to 'God.

(From Jerry)

This article makes a lot of sense to me.  I wish more people, believers and not, thought this way.  There are certain subjects that are sure to invoke instant reactions from people and he found one of the most potent.  I really don't care if "Under God" is in the pledge or not.  To me it's the sentiment behind saying the pledge in the first place that I think is important.  That is going to vary from each individual that recites the words.  I guess what made me upset personally  was this jerk saying that I and a few million other Americans would be denied the ability to use the words by law.  The reason, because he didn't want his child exposed to the words.  Well anyone who has watched television or listened to a rap song knows what that child is being exposed to is much worse than "Under God".  So to take a basically innocent phrase that has as many definitions as there are people, does nothing but cause rage and controversy.  By now it seems obvious that the majority of the American people disagree with the courts ruling.  This in itself really means nothing.  I would imagine that the majority of the American people disagree that they should have to pay half their income in taxes.  But I don't imagine the courts will support that in the near future. 

But this is different.  For one thing it will absolutely have no effect on the evil things that his child will be exposed to.  There will be many other opportunities for them to hear objectionable words like "Under God".  But a large part of learning to live in a free society is to accept some personal unpleasantness for the benefit of the whole.  I am certain most people cause such unpleasantness themselves, at times, for others.  A few months ago I considered taking Karate classes.  I thought what a great way to exercise and learn a new skill.  But after my second lesson the whole philosophy that accompanies the training, the rituals, the forced respect for your trainer (mine was a seventeen year old kid I had to call master) was enough for me to decide that it was not for me.  I didn't grab the yellow pages and pick out a lawyer to stop this evil practice.  I just walked away leaving them to their life style and continuing with mine.  Why would I want to force my way of thinking on them.  I certainly would resist theirs forced on me. 

Another aspect is the way the constitution was manipulated to express such a narrow viewpoint.  We have discussed this before but the constitution has no reference to the separation of church and state.  It does make it quite clear that the government will not sponsor or indorse any particular religion.  All are welcome or none at all.  But some how this has been twisted by some to mean you must deny it's existence.  I don't even believe "Under God" or "God Bless..." or other variations are particularly religious.  God is defined within yourself, religion is defined by others.  So the government using the word God passes the "establishment of religion" clause but denying its use does not pass the "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".  If the majority of people want "Under God" in there right now, so be it.  It's a free country.  No one is going to force me to say it.  It will be my choice.  But there is nothing in the law of the land that denies its use and in fact, it does prohibit its banning.

As a prominent American once said during a time of crisis in one of our large American cities,

"Can't we just all get along?"

 

Jerry

 

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Jerry Re: Constitution

But really I’m glad I finally found the right words to express how I feel about the Constitution.  It does not belong to the Forefathers.  It belongs to you and me. It is a living document and will never be finished.   They wrote the first draft and I think did an excellent job.  But their world is not ours and they realized that too.  They made provisions to make changes.  But until those changes are made I believe we should live by what it says not what we would like it to say. 

 

It is not the Supreme Court’s job or duty to define the Constitution.  That is reserved for the American people and Congress.  But with so many five to four decisions it is not hard to deduce that this is often the case, injecting their own personal agendas into their decisions.  Not much better odds than a coin toss.  In fact if you factor in the fact is ultimately decided by one judge’s opinion, it reverts to a fifty-fifty chance, a coin toss.   Their duty is to interrupt the Constitution as defined, to act as referee in matters of dispute.  Could you imagine the uproar if many controversial calls in professional baseball or football were decided on a 56 to 44 % margin?  There would be a demand for immediate investigations.  But we seem to accept this from the highest court on a regular basis.  If, as it should be, they represent the most knowledgeable authorities on Constitutional law in the land they should more often than not be in agreement. They are appointed for life but they also swore to uphold the Constitution when they accepted the position not thrust their personal ideas of a perfect world on to the American people.  This applies to the lower courts as well.  If this concept is not acceptable to them, then perhaps they should resign or in lieu of that, be removed.  I also don’t believe that a single person that was politically appointed in Fresno should have the ability to change law that effects million of Americans.  There should be provisions in these matters that the issue is automatically referred to a higher level before it is implemented

 

It sometimes is not easy to decide when it is time to change their words.  But other times it’s hard to understand why they were not there to begin with.  Examples of that would be the abolishment of slavery or the women’s right to vote.  Others like limiting the president to two terms maybe is not so important to some.  But a majority thought so at one time to change the constitution.  Democracy, in part, should protect you from minority opinion being forced upon you, rather that opinion be religious, political or economic.  The Mormons, the Republicans and the communist are all part of our country and free to practice what they want.  But no one I know would want their or any other beliefs forced upon them.  So I guess the time to get upset is when enough people think it’s wrong.  The writers did not make it easy to make a change, for many good reasons I think, but did provide a way. 

 

Jerry

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7/13/2001

 Jim and I lad a heated discussion at the ROF last night, I really had a hard time with this one, he really got in my face and I couldn't back away... in his mind I think he sees me as the personification of everything that is wrong with this country... he tries mightily to convince me that his conservative viewpoint is the only viewpoint for any rational person to have, a dissenting view means you are ...? I don't know what... an idiot? or worse... a Liberal Democrat... some sort of pathetic unenlightened dupe of the Liberal Media... I think he's mistaken but he won't listen to me. We are just polarized about all things social and political, the fact that we are still good friends boggles me, but we are.

He started this conversation with the observation that he thinks it's terrible that "They" (Liberals, Homosexuals, Democrats or all of the above) are conspiring to destroy the Salvation Army. He said that the Salvation Army is the only True Charity in the country and he thinks it's just awful that it is being destroyed.... well ... I like the Salvation Army... they are the only charity that steps in to a crisis and just helps, they ask for nothing and are a very credible organization. The way I understand it, the Salvation Army contacted or was contacted by the Bush administration and  there was a discussion about "Federally Supported, Faith Based Charities" and the Salvation Army's policies concerning Homosexuals... The Salvation Army has strong fundamentalist religious ties just like the Boy Scouts and they felt, like the Boy Scouts do, that they needed to retain that affiliation and to change their policies just to be involved in some Federal program would be counter productive to their Ministry... More power to em, same with the Boy Scouts... I don't see that the Boy Scouts or the Salvation Army is in any danger of being destroyed at all... they (Not the Gays or the Liberal Democrats) made a decision that their discriminatory and repressive policies and viewpoints are going to stand and that's that. The Law, both Federal and State says that Discrimination is wrong, their Faith says Discrimination is mandated by their perception of God and their interpretation of the Bible 

 I wish I could say more here but it wouldn't be fair because this is my forum. If he reads this and responds with his viewpoint then perhaps we can continue but... till then. Anyway, I always come away from these "confrontations" more peeved than refreshed... I don't mind arguing but I feel like I am alone... Jim is a passionate guy, he is a powerful arguer (if that is a word)... he mostly wins arguments with me by out escalating me, taking the level of passion beyond where I am comfortable going, I wish it wasn't so, I just get the feeling that he doesn't hear me and that is exasperating. 

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6/27/2001

I was reminded today of another childhood pleasure that has been lost to maturity... I had five of my kids and four of Bonnie's ... 'bout 9 all tolled and I took them to the park. I was sitting with Autumn and looked up and those kids and about 10 others were climbing all over the playground apparatus playing Tag. 18 to 20 kids, virtual strangers yelling and laughing and helping each other out... it makes me sort of sad to think about how much we've lost by growing up and maturing... our ability to just accept one another and (more importantly) our willingness to let ourselves be accepted gets crushed through the years, at least mine did...  we withdraw that vulnerable trusting part of ourselves as we learn how cruel and judgmental others can be. I shouldn't say "we"... not everyone is as neurotic as I am... I pass judgment and assume others are too... and when I find myself unable to live up to my own standards, I wonder what that is all about. I am so hamstrung by my biases, preconceptions, prejudices, I can't tolerate intolerance, I can't accept your beliefs because you won't accept mine, I point at your imperfections because then perhaps you won't see mine

I am comparing myself in the gym to the kids in the park, I am a shy person. Shyness manifests itself in several ways. A part of me is still afraid of being inadequate, Mike walked in to the gym like he owned it... he started using one machine after another, he was just a clueless as I am but he isn't concerned about "making a fool of himself" ... my words... I am, I'm still all hung up on looking like a fool and being an outsider. Walking into that gym is still the hardest thing I do every day... I have always wanted to fit in but never willing to learn how... that's not quite right... to be more accurate, I have never been willing to compromise... small talk seems like such a waste of time and energy... it's a form of insincerity somehow, I have never been any good at it, perhaps that's why I avoid situations that require it. I enjoy talking to people but I think too hard or something... it is difficult, I envy folks who can walk up and start a conversation, I love being around them... Christy can do it... Jan Sisco... my sisters... Jim Milewsky... Tony Natoli... lots of folks I know can just make friends effortlessly (At least it seems effortless to me) It seems, on reflection, that they are my friends because they initiated the contact... not me... I am too fearful of rejection... I'm not sure where that fear came from... probably school... I don't understand all the dynamics but I am painfully aware of the symptoms... 

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 I got an e-mail from a friend that ended with the sentence below...

"DID I SCARE YOU OFF WITH MY REPLY CONCERNING DOOMSDAY?"

(I wrote this in reply a long time ago… I have been hesitant to send it… but it has been sitting in my Drafts folder too long… it is time… )

I’m 57 years old… that’s too old to be frightened by fairy tales… Folks have been predicting the end of the world since the first thunderstorm. I am a Pragmacrat politically and … by nature of my opinion that there are too many avenues for dissention in this world, if I am to be true to myself I have to admit to being an Agnostic religiously. Organized religion just adds to the turmoil… Too many people die every day defending a belief system that sets them apart, and therefore at odds with, the rest of humanity. Religions that promote that sort of passion are obscene… and an abomination to me.  

I believe that the concept that there is a right way and a wrong way to believe in God is ridiculous, I believe that any religion that says there is has completely missed the point. To me God is simply the wonder of our existence, that part of our living that is unknown.

 I believe that anyone who professes to know the mind of God is a charlatan and to be avoided like the plague. Anyone who thinks they can divine the true meaning life by interpreting the Bible is deluding themselves… The Bible is a document created thousands of years ago by wise men to try to explain the meaning of life and the mysteries about them… A text book for how to get along with one another and survive the pestilence of that era. The Bible has been translated from Latin, Hebrew, Greek and word of mouth by people who thought the world consisted of the land bordering the Mediterranean. Each translation was biased by the beliefs and prejudices of the times and the translator. These people thought that the Sun traveled around the earth, Monsters inhabited the Oceans, the world was flat, ad-infinitum. We are constantly adding to the world’s knowledge in medicine, geography, geology, astronomy, archeology, every answer brings us closer to understanding the origin of our existence. Every religious zealot who stands between his religion and the enlightenment of science, denies his creator. Every Religious fanatic who puts his faith before reason is denying the brain that God gave him and the freedom of will to use it.  

 Once we get down to what precipitated the event that caused us (The Universe) to come into existence we will have discovered God. Once we discover what force or power is directing my brain to create this e-mail and yours to read, interpret, agree or disagree with it, we have found our souls… then all we’ll have to do is tie the two together and we will have defined my religion.

Said much better by A. Einstein:

My religion consists of a humble admiration of the unlimitable superior who reveals Himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.

And again By Monty Python

Monty Python's Ode to Creation

All things dull and ugly
All creatures short and squat
All things rude and nasty
The Lord God made the lot.

Each little snake that poisons
Each little wasp that stings
He made their brutish venom
He made their horrid wings.

All things sick and cancerous
All evil great and small
All things foul and dangerous
The Lord God made them all.

Each nasty little hornet
Each beastly little squid
Who made the spikey urchin
Who made the sharks? He did.

All things scabbed and ulcerous
All pox both great and small
Putrid, foul and gangrenous
The Lord God made them all.

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Got one of my Hot Buttons pushed a while back and wrote (but didn't mail) this;

I don't choose to pass judgment on Pro Life vs. Pro Death or Pro Tyranny vs. Pro Choice ... I am Pro Adoption... when I see 60,000 unwanted, un-loved, children in Foster, Residential and Out Of Home Care in Los Angeles County alone, I wonder when are the Pro Life / Pro Choice advocates going to put their money where their mouths are and do something constructive. There are thousands of children waiting for someone willing to adopt them. 

We have all taken different paths to get where we are, no one has a corner on truth, the things that we believe and get passionate about are conclusions drawn from the experiences of a lifetime and of perspective. Because we disagree  doesn't make either of us right or wrong. 

When will preventing unwanted pregnancies take precedence over arcane religious dogma... is inflicting a 14 year old girl with an unwelcomed pregnancy and an unwanted child the right thing to do? Is setting a child up for abandonment, physical or sexual abuse the right thing to do? Is allowing the birth of an encephalic child the right thing to do? A woman, a pregnancy, a birth, and all decisions pertaining to them are the sole responsibly of the woman involved, no one has the right, Devine or otherwise to impose their will on them or to pass judgment on their decisions.

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Another empty thought...I'll get back to it.

... I am trying to make sense of my life... find a reason... a purpose behind all the stuff... the good and the not so good... when I was a young man I yearned for the day when it all made sense, when I would know the answers to all the questions... the older I got the more it became obvious that for each answer found I was confronted with more questions. 

I used to think I wanted to be like the old men and women who knew the answers to all of the ills of the world... right and wrong were carved into their brains like into granite. They had the answers by God... What I have come to find out is that the idols of my youth were mostly just opinionated old curmudgeons who gave up on finding "truth" and settled on a sort of social expedience. They held their finger in the air to see which way the wind was blowing and gave the answer that would meet with the approval of their peers most of the time... I want more... enlightenment I guess, I want clarity, I want wisdom... seems like truth is a burden... a weight to be carried and never known... truth for a bigot or a religious man is simple... it doesn't involve knowledge it involves faith... a blind obedience to a "reality" larger than they. Reality is what it is, not what you think it is. Reality can be perceived by many people in many ways. For example, the reality of a pregnancy is one thing to the mother, another to the father and another to the parents of both... then you add in the Doctors, and society in general and you have about a thousand different versions of reality.

Where is truth, what is truth, who has access to the truth? Everyone... and no one. What I perceive to be the truth may be light-years away from what you believe to be the truth. Who has the entitlement to say that either of us is right or wrong... The concept that Truth and Reality are subjective things, dependant on preconceptions, needs and perspectives, is hard to wrap my brain around but they must be. How else do you explain Politics and Religion? No one can prove their faith in their religious beliefs just as no one can positively justify their Political convictions... people sling contradictory facts and statistics at one another.. each with a biased spin to support their conviction that the other is an idiot or a crook... so tiresome. 

In the Good Ole Boy world where passing off ignorance as a virtue is an acceptable response to any problem... like Mabel says "Well I don't know about that, but the Pastor says, the bible says, God says, that it aint right..." People keep quoting other people, it seems to me that they are mostly quoting entertainers passing themselves off as pundits like Limbaugh, and his ilk... Entertainers have their little fingers in the air... they are on the air because they are telling their audience what their audience wants to hear... if they weren't they would be selling pencils on the corner. If you ask them what they know they will tell you what they think... when you press them for  what they think they know they will say "I know that Rush Limbaugh (The preacher, the 5 O'clock News, Neighbor, National Enquirer) said ..."

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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.

Blaise Pascal, philosopher and mathematician (1623-1662)

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I have poor Social Skills... I think I have always known that... perhaps that is why I do most all my communicating on the Internet. It was painfully obvious today when I talked to Mike's Therapist... I can't seem to string three words into a logical thought... it's so exasperating to sit there knowing what I want to say and being incapable of putting it into words...

Also, I really am pathetic at making small talk... I would like sit with the men down at the 76 and spend an hour or two chatting about trucks and weather and the state of the world... I want to learn more about what's going on in town but  I have such a hard time remembering names and places I sound like a newcomer. I have tried to join conversations down there but I feel so awkward and sound so inane I usually end up excusing myself after a few minutes... I can sit and talk for hours about stuff nobody cares about... I love to debate/argue about things I have strong feelings about, I am genuinely interested in how people have come to the conclusions they have about politics and religion and world affairs. 

My memory for names is pathetic I have had trouble with names all my life... my favorite line is "I can remember names and faces I just can't put them together". It's a cute line but not really true.... I can actually remember faces but names are a mystery... they get stuck in some cubbyhole in my brain and are lost forever... I used to think there was a trick to it but if there is I haven't been able to figure it out. I am a lost cause... I don't even try any more. When I meet someone I should know I just say..." I'm sorry, I have forgotten your name." It's embarrassing but not as embarrassing as pretending I know who they are while trying to have a conversation with them. 

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I learned something at a funeral I went to recently, I want to plan mine out... I want a promise that my beliefs will be respected. I have no religious affiliation. It is not a big deal to me so I don't give a damn what is said but I don't want to be posthumously initiated into any allegiances. Religion and all the baggage it brings is evil and an abomination to me... I can not think of a thing that any religion has done to improve the world... sad isn't it.

 

"It always seemed strange to me that the things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self interest are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first, they love the produce of the second." - John Steinbeck

 

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Some thoughts

A Flow of Consciousness as an Antidote to Atheism.

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(I posted this without attributing it to the author, I have tried to go back and find it but have not been successful, if anyone knows the writer please let me know padagge@potc.net)

10/81/2006 Dan Everard (Dan@DanEverard.co.uk) wrote to me, he is the author of the piece below...

This is written as a response to "An antidote to religion", Daniel Lea's piece on the internet. It is not an answer to Daniel, but after reading his pages I wanted to write something; here it is. This is not a completed document but will, I hope, get updated every so often as I understand more. So here goes.

The first thing that you have to get the hang of is that it is possible for two or more people to view one thing in different ways; to describe it, therefore, differently; but to be accurately describing the same thing in ways which may seem self contradictory. A simple way of illustrating this is to think of two people looking at a diamond under a bright light but from different directions. One describes, maybe, a circular shape with purple highlights which hardly change as he moves his head, the other a cone shape with orange and red flashes which come and go as he moves. They are both describing the same thing, neither is lying, and if you know that the object is a diamond, there is no problem with the fact that purple is not orange or red, and that the difference in direction of view gives a different shape. Oddly, there is very little chance that the two of them will start to fight over their different views --- strange, isn't it?!

I contend that any two people's views of religion, the Almighty or what makes the world tick will differ (possibly hugely) through the fact that they must have different viewpoints, but that their different descriptions of their views do not deny the commonality of what they are trying to describe. Nor does the fact that two people disagree while trying to describe the same thing mean that they are not both correct in what they say, and it is no reason to therefore claim that they are talking of something that does not exist. Also, if you can not see the diamond it does not mean that it is not there.

People find it very difficult to be dispassionate about religion, I don't know why. Maybe it is because it is very important to them or they wouldn't have sorted out such a complicated interlinking of the world with such a simple answer, I know I get very uncomfortable myself if others try to point out that since they don't understand my view, it must be less good than theirs. Secondly, as it is based on their own faith that the paradigm of the whole world containing their view of God works, there is some threat to themselves if their image of God is challenged. I find it amusing, seen from a distance, that followers of a religion with pacifist rules should find it necessary to fight to impose that religion upon people who have a different view of the diamond. I find it unavoidable, from my view of the diamond, that this will be so, and it is no surprise that the religion will have a special sub-set of behavior rules to make this allowable. (I leave Buddhism out of this, it doesn't fit into my understanding yet, and it's interesting that many people claim that it isn't a religion but a philosophy. . . heigh-ho!).

It is not reasonable to base an atheist view simply on disagreements with mainstream Christianity. There are flaws in Christianity based on its early beginnings, just as there are virtues shown in its ability to survive a couple of thousand years. To my own taste even if those virtues are frequently questionable, they should not be denied out of hand. The prime flaws I see are founded in the fact that Paul took a minority Jewish sect and sold it to the biggest market around (the Romans), knocking it about a bit in the process. Because of this I find it difficult to take the new testament, from the Acts onwards, without being a little cynical about it. Don't get me wrong, I do not deny the virtue of much of the teaching the epistles contain, it's the general tenor of the thing that gives me trouble. (And if you lived through the sixties, the Revelations are the sort of thing that you tried to help people get over.)

However, Christians are not in a position to take some of the new testament, and deny the rest. This is because the structure of the religion is based firmly in Paul's teachings, and like all human organizations it is structured to be self perpetuating and capable of defending itself against change. (Frequently it seems that Paul might have been the "founder" of Christianity if the frequency of references to him in sermons were the gauge.) The only way out is revolution, schism, etc., and a new sect will usually fall for similar self perpetuating organizational traps as those it was trying to leave. OK there are notable exceptions. . . . Quakers, I believe, and others with a very un-hierarchical basis. But as many sects go for stronger discipline as their reason for dividing off, and as this leads naturally to a strong central organization to the "church" they found, the seeds of the problem are sown again and frequently surface in a generation or so, after the founders and their initial fervor have gone.

None of this is adequate reason to deny the existence of God, though it may be enough reason to check out the works of man very carefully. So why should one accept the existence of God, and what is his nature?

Do not be fooled, just because it is possible to phrase a question does not mean it is valid. "Who created the universe?" seems like a question which should have a valid answer. It has a few flaws however: the word "who" implies a person, "created" gives the whole thing human dimensions, implies a start and seems to assume that the job is finished, and there seems to be the implication that the questioner might understand the answer, even if there were one! If the universe is, as I believe, continuous there is no question, yet alone an answer. "What is God?" is for me a similar question, I'm not sure I'd understand the answer even if I knew what the question meant, however I am convinced of God's existence . . . to borrow from New Riders of the Purple Sage: "Take a look around you". I can do no better than this in showing that God is there; there is something going on that is outside our immediate knowledge. Perhaps "god" is a word we use for the incompleteness of what we know, but I'm not happy with that as a thought since there is definitely the experience of "knowing God"; I feel it and others report it.

I am an engineer and, being a scientist, there were many things of a more spiritual or of an "alternative" type that I was very cautious about accepting. The possibility that dowsing were anything other than a crank's way of taking people for a ride seemed unlikely to me. Unfortunately for me, I then discovered that I could dowse . . . Oops! Finding this did cause me to accept more things as being possible, when before I would not even think about them. This does not mean that I believe things with no real reason to do so, but that I don't refuse to consider things from a position of flat denial --- at least I try not to. Having an enquiring mind, going through the sixties during my formative years, and the dowsing experience have left me thinking that there is not much excuse for believing that I might even begin to know the whole truth. There is something final about an atheist's statement that there is no god that makes me worry what else he is missing. It's healthier to believe that "there's nothing so odd that it mightn't be so", at least it allows you to understand more of what makes other people tick.

So, I prefer to believe in God, in fact I do not know a reason why I should not believe in God. Something inside me tells me there is a god, and my observation of the world over the last fifty years leads me to think there is one god only --- or maybe there is one class of things that I don't understand which fits the "god" concept in my paradigm, if you wish; me, I prefer to call him God.

I have already denied the validity of asking what God is, but it ought to be possible to describe some of the nature of God as I perceive it --- my view of the diamond, incomplete and biased by preconceptions, but mine. I have been trying up to now not to be anthropomorphic about God, but I find I am unwilling to call him "it", and "she" implies gender which is irrelevant. I fear that I shall not be able to maintain the non-human allusions here on in.

I have also denied the question "Who created the universe?", but that is not to deny the existence of the creation. Because it is continuous, its time span is infinite, it means it has no end (not a problem to those in the habit of saying ". . . world without end, Amen" at the end of prayers and meaning it), but the beginning is just the other end and I think that it doesn't have that either. I apologies to the Big Bang fraternity, but if the Big Bang can be proven to have happened, rather than just being mathematically describable, I shall happily eat my words and will try to figure out what is going on again with the new data. It seems more likely to me that the whole shebang didn't start at all, with a totally uncharacteristic discontinuity, than that it did. Maybe the Big Bang did happen as the cusp at the end of one cycle of creation, and the beginning of the next --- I could go for that but I do not think it very likely.

Once you accept that "the creation" is continuous it is not hard to accept that it is still in the process of happening, and this leads to a reason for the existence of mankind amongst the rest of creation. There is a good image of us being the hands of God, which illustrates what is going on to some extent. But we are not the only "hands of God", the rest of creation is also part of the creating. My belief is that mankind is an aspect of God, and it is in part through the development of humanity within the context of the rest of the creation that the creation is achieved and furthered. It is also, of course, through the development of everything else as well throughout the whole universe, and now you begin to see just how enormous this idea of God has become, and why I fight shy of anthropomorphic images of him. God is everything.

There have been those who have accused me of arrogance for daring to think like this, because, of course, I am part of God. So is everybody/everything else. I find this reaction surprising for, far from arrogance, this understanding causes me to feel terrifyingly small, and drives me to have a realization of responsibility which I am not sure I can bear in my lonelier moments. Why I should be surprised I don't know, because these thoughts (though far from my own and hardly unique) challenge the established religions. Of course the normal human reaction to such a challenge is to attack back in terms which will challenge me. I'm lucky living when I do, for I believe many have been killed for the heresy I'm propounding.

(Now, there is a defense mechanism human institutions use all too frequently --- to socially cast out anyone who threatens the establishment, and then provide a legal method of killing them. I wonder why I am cautious of the established religions? It would be dangerous to believe that we have grown beyond that type of behavior, it was only the year before I was born that the death camps in Germany were liberated, and if you think that doesn't count since it wasn't (?) religious in origin check out the treatment of the Gnostics by the Church in Province in the 16th century.)

There needs to be some way of getting a scale on things. The God of which I speak is as relevant to galaxies as he is to me or to a microbe; the creation has the same scales, too. Yet on occasion I get a strong feeling that God is affecting my own life directly despite the size of these other commitments. There is the classic question, "Why should God pay any attention to one person, when they are so small a part of the whole of creation?", but this too suffers from anthropomorphism, it is very difficult to imagine a person who could do it, so God can't either. How often does the questioner consider the nail on the little finger of his left hand? I suggest that he does so whenever there is some trouble with it, or when it is useful to complete some task, rarely otherwise because it can get on with its existence quite satisfactorily without his consideration. The questioner still exists whether he spends any time considering the nail or not; the nail is still part of him. So it is with God and mankind - or microbes or a galaxy - although God does not need to consider the questioner all the time, the fact that it is difficult to understand how he might is no proof of his non-existence.

I find that the Christian concept of the Trinity fits well with God as I perceive him, this is best described from the human perspective but applies to all things. The Father is everything that has come before us and that goes into making us what we are. The Father is our ancestors, our history and that which becomes our education. The Son is all that exists now, the "hands" of God. The Son makes things, changes things, works at continuing the task of creation. The Holy Spirit is the inspiration which continues from the Father through the Son into the future. The Spirit caused cathedrals and bridges to be built, pictures to be painted on the walls of caves and chapels, steam engines and microscopes to be invented. The Spirit is the hope that keeps people enquiring and striving to improve the creation. The Spirit gives the lateral leap which solves the problem or the dogged persistence which keeps going till it is solved.

I must admit that I had trouble with the idea of the trinity whenever it was talked of in religious lessons at school. It seemed so important a concept, and so meaningless at the same time. I could understand the need to have the Father and the Son separated if you were going to make sense of the idea of Jesus being the only son of God, but why the Spirit? The thought given above began as a struggle to understand what the word "trinity" could mean, and has become a clarification of life as I have lived with it. I haven't met any one else who thinks of it like this yet, but I bet I'm not alone.

From this description of the Trinity it may become obvious who I believe the Son is: not just mankind, but the whole shooting match as it stands at the moment. We are not gods, but we are part of God, with the responsibilities, and, in the long term, the capabilities implied by this fact. What price global warming and acid rain now? We're doing it to ourselves in the bluntest way possible, and though these phenomena are uncomfortable for the human race they are part of the creative process. It may well be that we are bound to dispose of ourselves if we are incapable of doing the job properly. . . . . . guess what could be happening at this very moment. To take the idea further, we are not gods but we are God in the sense that my hand is not a human but it is human. It seems to me that to claim that one person is "the son of God" does not make sense. I allow that, since we are all part of God, some of us are closer to the ideal of what we imagine God to be than others, and that the ultimate is exemplified by Jesus of Nazareth; from this he is the son of God, and it is a pretty good idea to follow his teachings. Actually you would have trouble bettering his teachings so it definitely is a pretty good idea, but make sure you are following his teachings, and not some politico-salesman's construct. There are some other contenders for the title (but you must find those for yourself, and judge their worth), just as there are others who pretty much define the other end of the scale.

The creation is generally furthered by the process of evolution. Evolution is, in general, achieved by having random perturbations of the existing way things are done, and, if the resulting variant is better than those around it, it survives preferentially. If the new way of doing things can survive there is a mechanism for passing it on the next time the system is renewed . . . sometimes. The result of this is that in the very long term there is a statistical probability that the creation will improve, or at least get better at surviving. Another result is that there will, of course, be perturbations that are not 'survival enhancing'. This is the creative mechanism built into the world, it is the influence of the Spirit that enables us to use it to improve the world. One can claim, and I did for a long time, that there is a "down side" to God, i.e. he makes mistakes. Actually I see this as a misconception of what God is and of what God is doing. As a person is to his finger nail mentioned earlier, I think God is sublimely indifferent to the small workings of the creation, unless there is some reason to pay attention. If an 'act of God' causes a hillside to fall onto a village and kill the inhabitants this is not God at fault but an aspect of the evolutionary/creative process at work (although probably a down-side perturbation). I can not guess whether this example would actually improve or worsen the creation in the long term, or merely be insignificant, but that is precisely how the mechanism works --- I think, however, that the villagers would probably think it was a lousy idea and, from their perspective, a definite example of God making a mistake.

People who pray a lot are, in part, praying in the belief that by doing this they can bring things to God's attention. I think they may be correct, which is part of the reason why I do so myself. I do wonder, however, if prayer doesn't concentrate the mind to enable people to be more at one with the Creator/God, and that the mechanism by which the prayer is answered is often that one becomes more understanding, and better as "the hands". (There is the old truism that "it's funny how often good luck happens to those who work hardest", the same kind of thing may apply with prayer.) If you do pray, then it is important that the "conversation" is complete. A child who is always asking people for things, and rarely talks of anything except his wants, soon gets ignored, the same is true of the inveterate flatterer, I think the same is true of the content of prayer. I, personally, have trouble with public prayer since I rarely talk to one person loudly in the company of others who are listening to me, it is like having someone else listen to a my telephone conversation, I don't like it. Ritual prayer I accept as an art-form, and I find it constructive but not as a conversation. There is much ritual to religion which is astoundingly beautiful if you like ritual, and stinks if you don't, this does not mean it is worthless, or that the religious sect that uses it is wrong, but that it is another facet of the diamond . . . if you do not recognize the value of it you may simply be looking from a different direction. Sometimes the way to understanding is through immersing yourself in something under the right circumstances, the way many people get to like classical music. Sometimes it just isn't worth it, there may be more effective ways of becoming a better part of the creation.

So don't scrap God as an idea because the people around you describe something that fits their understanding and not yours. Getting uptight because someone thinks that you need converting to their view is a good way of missing the truth. Because of this, my belief is that you should not try to impose your beliefs on others . . . offer them if asked, maybe, but do not try to "convert" others, they may have a better understanding than you have. It's better to live by your beliefs than to shout about them, if you're right people will notice and maybe come closer to the truth themselves. If you shout you turn more people off than on, and if you were right would you like to live with that on your conscience?

If you've read this far, then the last paragraph may seem a bit hypocritical, but then I guess you chose not to stop reading, thank you. Since this seems to be going on for ever, I think I'd better wrap it up for now. I'll come back and rework it as the spirit moves me!